When chips happen–customers, expectations, and responsibility

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  • When chips happen–customers, expectations, and responsibility

    Posted by Brian Watson Sick String Guitar Repair on August 20, 2025 at 7:15 am

    Hey all, I am really enjoying digging through the looth group. I have not yet watched all the ding kings vids or read all the amazing comments and articles here, but I’ve been appreciating some of the loothing for dollars stuff, seeing other people’s intake sheets, discussions about dealing with customers, and it led me to this question:

    How do people deal with customer expectations, liability, and the inevitable accidents that can happen in the course of repair? I am sure that I’ll come across some discussion about this as I dive into more articles, but specifically when it comes to finish chips, I think of 2 examples that have happened to me in the past 20 years.

    One was while making a bone nut and assembling a partscaster a customer had ordered in a relic finish from a popular guitar relic\finishing guy on eBay. It came with checking all over, zero plasticizers in the lacquer. When i was test fitting the nut blank, I had a big chip of lacquer pop off in one spot. I was able to tack it back down with lacquer, let it dry for a week, and then tried to relieve the finish over hang on the sharp edge of the nut slot with sand paper, and got even more chipping. It led to a delay, a lot of wasted time on the job and a less than perfect result, with an unhappy customer, and I ended up significantly discounting or waiving the fee for the job, but it was not ideal for anybody. That was about 15 years ago IIRC.

    The other I’m thinking of was on a practically brand new American jazz bass that had some fret buzz and a bit of a rise in the frets toward the heel. When I went to remove the neck for a better look, with the bolts and neck plate completely off the guitar, it felt like the neck was glued in. Neck would not slide or wiggle out like I’d expect for a Fender. When I levered the neck out, a big chip of finish popped off right near the heel of a practically new guitar. On inspection there was overspray inside the neck pocket. I’m still not sure what the deal was but I could have sworn it felt like it was assembled wet. The finish on the neck and the overspray in the neck pocket honestly felt like they were interlocked. In that case I was able to glue the chip back and do some touch up, but again, at the cost of a lot of time, and it was not an “invisible” job. I always inform customers when something like that has happened, and it’s rare, but always stressful.

    As I’m working on re-opening my repair business after years of primarily working as a touring backline tech, I’m remembering some of the stresses that come with customer work. I’m curious how people deal with these situations– When is it the looth’s responsibility when an accident happens despite following best practices, how do people manage customer expectations and handle missteps, and how do folks anticipate and mitigate these kinds of things in advance? I can think of 1 or 2 other repairs gone wrong over the years that stressed me out, and I’d love to have a more solid sense of how to handle it rather than falling down the rabbit hole of anxiety and lost time in the event that a file slips, tape pulls up a chunk of finish, a fretboard is exceedingly brittle on a refret, etc etc.

    I’d like to think that after a lot of years in the shop and on the road I’ve seen a lot of what can be problematic with standard repair work, but as the old guitars are getting older all the time, while new brands have come into the market, and distressed finishes from the factory have become more standard, I have no doubt that I’ll run into new challenges with finishes down the road.

    What are people’s stories about unexpected chips and dings, and what tips and tricks do you have to avoid them? What do you find are the most sketchy\problematic operations that you really watch out for? How do you account for the possibility that you might make a mistake and still keep customers happy when you occasionally do?

    Brian Watson Sick String Guitar Repair replied 6 months ago 3 Members · 4 Replies
  • 4 Replies
  • Paris Patt | Daymaker Music

    Member
    August 21, 2025 at 3:39 pm

    When is it the looth’s responsibility when an accident happens despite following best practices

    In my opinion and practice, it’s always best to be upfront, honest, transparent, and humble when it comes to accidents or mistakes (or bad luck). I don’t let it linger; I don’t try to figure a way out of it. I dial the number and call the customer and let them know what happened; often I will arrange a time for them to come in so we can discuss it in person and figure out a solution/way forward.

    So many aspects of guitar repair and restoration are unpredictable. We often find ourselves working with solvents, varying conditions (both of the shop and the instrument) and aspects that are entirely outside of our control. The best we can do is have high and strict standards, have documented and followed procedures, have a breadth of experience that includes “Little Tips” that help mitigate disasters before they occur, and have a community to apprise when we run into these situations that are outside of our understanding or control.

    9 times out of 10, when I have had either a mistake or an uncontrollable condition that arose, a frank conversation with my clients has ameliorated all of it. Often, the luthier is far more worried about what something looks like or what has happened while the instrument is in their care — perhaps rightfully so. It is after all our responsibility when an instrument enters the shop that it leaves in better condition than when it arrived. But — big but — we are human, instruments are (typically) made of organic materials, and we can only play God so far in the scheme of things. Most of my clients have understood this and met me on the level and we figured out a way forward.

    Of course you will have an upset customer now and then who isn’t interested in a way forward; they think you’ve seriously messed up and want to rake you over the coals. That is unfortunate. Take it on the chin, wish them the best luck, and move on.

    But I think you will find most people are understanding and will try to figure out a way forward with you and the repair/restoration; they will appreciate the candor and involving them in the situation, rather than deflecting or ‘trying to protect them’ by doing a surreptitious drop-finish repair or other cover-up work without apprising them.

    how do people manage customer expectations and handle missteps

    I’m very upfront with clients about structural repairs, finish work, and the generally ‘unpredictable’ nature of certain repairs. I will tell them that I aim to obviously repair/restore an instrument to the best of my ability (particularly making sure it is structurally stable/sound and very playable).

    However — When it comes to aesthetics — I am very upfront and clear that one person’s ‘red’ is not another person’s ‘red’. Color matching is incredibly subjective and you cannot predict what level of scrutiny one person will have compared to another.

    I don’t perform ‘ding work’ or ‘just finish work for finish work’s sake’ in my shop; I learned a while ago that it is a race to the absolute bottom, and you tend to work with some of the more psychologically manipulative or abusive clients by performing this work exclusive to any actual structural/playability issue with an instrument.

    I don’t use the word ‘perfect’. I don’t oversell my abilities or capabilities. I don’t tell people ‘you’ll never know it happened’. From my experience in the art and sculpture conservation world, it’s actually typically considered dishonest to make your repair/conservation work blend in perfectly with the original work. This hasn’t really penetrated the guitar repair zeitgeist, but I think it gets many luthiers in hot water when they either oversell their ability to make damage ‘disappear’, or find that their best work is not up to the standards of the layman instrument owner.

    This is the main reason I only perform finish work when it surrounds structural repair.

    and how do folks anticipate and mitigate these kinds of things in advance? I can think of 1 or 2 other repairs gone wrong over the years that stressed me out, and I’d love to have a more solid sense of how to handle it rather than falling down the rabbit hole of anxiety and lost time in the event that a file slips, tape pulls up a chunk of finish, a fretboard is exceedingly brittle on a refret, etc etc.

    Documentation, communication, preparation, and avoiding distractions.

    By documentation — I mean don’t leave things to chance or anecdotal skill. Reduce the unknowns by documenting what quirks you have run into, and what fixes you have found either prevent them from happening or help mitigate potential damage.

    Write an operational ‘Manual of Repairs’. Document how you perform a fret dressing or a refret. Document how you perform a setup. Put in exact measurements for you to follow. Reference it while you are completing a repair; it will keep you present and in the moment with the work you are performing. It will keep you from getting distracted.

    Never rush, even if you are under a deadline — the worst that happens is you are a little late. If you are running out of time on a project, speak with the client before it is late, and ask for a bit more time so you can do the job properly. I find many of my mistakes are made when I am rushing and not thinking clearly and feel pressured to complete a job ASAP.

    Don’t work while you are answering the phone, or doing other tasks. If you need to speak on the phone, take a break from the bench. Being distracted is a recipe for dropping your screwdriver on a guitar, slipping up, hurting yourself, or hurting an instrument.

    Speaking of tools — Keep your bench clean before and after (and during, most of the time) any and all repairs. Vacuum often, especially if you are working with any sort of metal, be it clipping frets or filing them. The quickest way to scratch an instrument is leaving a tool (or metal shavings) on your bench. I personally keep all tools off to one side and no longer have any tools over my bench.

    A lot of potential issues can be perceived at drop off and communicated to the customer. It’s part of why I do a very in depth consultation and deep dive on instruments when they are brought into the shop; even if the client has 4 of them or more, I take time with each one, so I can go over what repairs/restoration we are setting out to do, and what quagmires/potential issues we might run into.

    The more you can label problems or potential issues up front, the less surprised your client will be if something does in fact happen, and the less stressed/worried you will be if they do happen.


  • Ian Davlin The Looth Group

    Administrator
    August 21, 2025 at 5:57 pm

    My advice for avoiding dings and chips is to set up your workspace carefully and build habits that minimize risk.

    I never hang tools on the back wall of the bench where I would have to reach across an instrument to retrieve them. That is an accident waiting to happen. I avoid putting tape on guitars unless it is absolutely necessary. I move tools around guitars, not over them. If I need to cut brittle lacquer (like on a maple refret), I heat the knife first. Sometimes I will soften problematic lacquer with a light coat of retarder before working on it, such as when removing an acoustic Gibson neck.

    When I do cause a ding, which has become rare since my time at a guitar factory where any damage was considered a serious mistake and I had to develop those aforementioned strategies, I fix it. How I address it with the customer depends on the outcome of the repair and whether the situation involved an actual error. On vintage instruments, many small marks can be blended away with nothing more than spit and a little dirt.

    If I were running a full-time repair shop again, I would definitely have a clear policy on finish issues that occur despite professional efforts and in the absence of hasty actions and/or dumb mistakes.

    The reality is that finish issues happen. For whatever reason, luthiers tend to hold themselves to an impossibly high standard. Think about how a doctor responds when a patient dies: “I am sorry for your loss, here is your bill.”

    In the same way, it makes sense to develop a reasonable policy you can live with. I would also start taking extra time during intake process to anticipate potential problems such as brittle lacquer. It’s really easy to blast through intake and not think about everything that can go wrong.

    Take the time to develop strong finish repair skills. Without those skills, or someone you can rely on for them, this work would be nearly impossible. At least for me. When people compliment my finish repair, I usually respond, “I’m good at finish repair cuz I suck at everything else.”

    Now, all that being said, if you made a real honest to goodness boo boo and there’s no painting your way out of it etc CALL THE CUSTOMER.

  • Brian Watson Sick String Guitar Repair

    Member
    September 13, 2025 at 5:39 pm

    Really appreciate this thoughtful reply. I think your perspective is helpful–the idea that luthiers hold themselves to an impossible standard sometimes definitely rings true. It does sometimes feel like we’re supposed to be clairvoyant when seeing an instrument for the first time. When I had my brick and mortar shop, I spent a lot of time chatting with customers at intake but I didn’t have a very formal process or any kind of releases or paperwork for them other than a handwritten intake slip where I made notes, and then filled out as the work progressed for their receipt. I’ve been learning a lot hearing about other people’s intake and evaluation process (and looking forward to Doug’s presentation on it tomorrow.)

    Those tips about good habits for tool storage and moving around a guitar are smart, and especially the bit about heat when scribing and etc. That’s not a step I’ve done unless something has been stubborn to remove. I’ll have to keep it in mind in the future!

    Do you ever heat up the tongue of the guitar on a bolt on neck? That bass situation is the one that still bothers me in retrospect. Only time that’s happened in like a thousand times removing a standard fender neck. In hind sight I should have paused and given it more thought when it felt so sticky.

    Thankfully the bit about communicating with customers is a strength. I totally agree that’s always the right move.

  • Brian Watson Sick String Guitar Repair

    Member
    September 13, 2025 at 5:53 pm

    @DaymakerMusic some really solid perspective here, thank you. You’re so right regarding the bit about some of the more abusive customers being the most obsessed with cosmetics, to paraphrase. Also agree about the “race to the bottom” chasing minor chip and ding touchups. It’s cool that you have that experience with art restoration and how that community views it vs the guitar world. <div>

    I really like your suggestion about keeping documentation of standard practices and methods, I’m going to start doing that. I’ve kept copious notes over the years, but still find myself experimenting with certain things–like looking for a faster way to achieve my ideal result for final fret polish, etc. And I’ve tended to change my setup procedure a bit depending on the guitar, e.g. I’ll follow the G&L manual procedure when setting up a G&L, but I follow a bit of a different set of steps for a Gibson. Keeping it all in one place and handy to present to customers is a great idea.

    These replies are so insightful, just another example of why I’m enjoying this community\resource. Thanks again!

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