Is it a good idea to take looth jobs from a competitor for some extra income?

[Al Pachter Al’s Guitar Workshop]

Excellent question!!! Here is how I would handle that: first of all, you definitely don’t want to or need to work for him or anyone else. Let him know about your business and your reviews and offer to have him refer any customers if that would make life easier for him. You are doing him a favor by offering. I’ve done this with several shops in my area and it’s worked fine. There is so much work to be done and so few repair shops that we are not truly competitors. Your business will grow naturally over time. It would be great for you if he agrees to refer to you but also fine if he doesn’t.

[Job Heesakkers Acres Instruments]

Hey Al, thank you for the reply! You’re absolutely right that it would be best if I could just work for myself and maybe let the other shop just send customers over. I know the guy a little bit and he seems very open for any kind of help, so I might just give your way a try. If he’s not keen on the idea of sending them to me and not gaining anything for himself, I might offer him a percentage of any repair that comes my way through him. You’ve given me some stuff to think about!

[Al Pachter Al’s Guitar Workshop]

One other suggestion: I’m also a local musician so I told all the musicians I know, and also mentioned it on the local musician fb pages. I made a fb page for my shop and pointed people in that direction. The shop got alot of attention from the fb page. I’ve never felt the need for a website. I have a google business page that also attracts a lot of customers and a Yelp page that is moderately helpful although also more trouble than it’s worth. So get yourself a Google page. It’s very easy. I’m moderately tech savvy, not expert by any means.

[Job Heesakkers Acres Instruments]

I have a fb page, instagram, a website, and a google page. Especially the Google page has helped for me to find new customers. I haven’t tried posting on local musician pages and other fb groups though! That’s a good one, my facebook page has basically 0 traffic. Yelp isn’t really a thing in the Netherlands, so luckily I don’t have to deal with that.

[Doug Proper Guitar Specialist]

Hey Job,

I am going to offer a somewhat differing opinion from Al on this one.

I’ve often said, that doing what we do certainly beats wearing an orange apron at Home Depot. Not that there is anything wrong with that – there are many fine folks who work there – I’m just not interested being one of them.

It is okay to work for another repair shop part time. What is important is that you set the terms and boundaries before you begin with a full understanding of what is expected of you and what you expect from whom you are working for under those arrangements.

Let start from the presumption that, as you stated in your original question, you are doing this part time and wish to do this full time but currently don’t have enough work/customers to have your shop sustain itself (or you) full time.

I’m working with the assumption that if all of that is true that this is a relatively new venture.

That also means, by definition, unless you are independently wealthy, that you have to do “something else” to eat, pay your bills and also subsidize your “guitar business'”. As we all know, this alligator loves to eat. Tools, supplies, wood, jigs fixtures. For some, working another job outside their loothing business works. That’s great!

Lack of revenue can turn a relatively guitar young guitar business into a pretty expensive hobby in minutes.

If you are currently working another job for income but wish to do this full time. Then I would wholeheartedly endorse you working for another person/shop while you build your business, hone your repair skills and gain experience. At least you will be working on guitars for money rather than some other job that you spend all your time at while wishing you were back at your bench.

Al’s suggestion that he refer his overflow to you might work, but in many cases is somewhat unrealistic, as it would be contrary to human nature to expect someone proactively send you their customers.

If you would rather remain independent, you might work out an arrangement with him that any work he would like to give you, you can take back to your shop, complete and then return the guitar to him. He then, in essence becomes a customer of yours that he can lay off his overflow to you. You get to spend more time in the shop generating revenue – albeit less than if you were working on your own customers but you will be gaining experience and maybe get to do this full time sooner.

Of course, there is trust involved – he needs to know the quality of your work, trust you’ll deliver when he needs it and at a competency that is commensurate with his customer’s expectations. You also need to be insured so if anything should happen to one of his customer’s instruments while it is in your care, he will be covered.

True – you won’t be “building your own brand”, but you won’t be building your own brand while working a part/full time job doing whatever it is you are doing while not working on guitars for a living either. Plus – don’t get me wrong – but there is plenty of time to build one’s brand. There is nothing wrong with doing this job anonymously for some period of time – in fact there may be great benefits to it!

In the early days of my business, I worked for as many as seven music stores (at one time), doing their repairs. Some insisted I work in their back room, most let me take the work back to my shop and do drop offs and pickups once a week or so. In almost all those cases – when I did speak with a customer (some preferred I did not), they only knew me as the “repair guy for such-n-such music” – and in many cases did not know that their guitar was even in my shop.

As my business grew it crowded out the need to do work for others (and having to share a measure of the value of my work with them).

It all depends on the arrangement you can make with him. If he is truly backed up with more work than he can handle, he will be glad for the assistance. Just make sure the terms are such that you can deliver on them.

I hope this helps add to the discussion.

[Job Heesakkers Acres Instruments]

Wow Doug, that’s a lot of insights! Thank you so much!

A little info about my history as a luthier; I’ve been working on guitars for close to 10 years, 6 of those years were profesionally in a guitar shop in my area. I also went to a luthier school in Belgium for a few years at the same time. I gained a ton of experience from both the school and the job, working on hundreds of guitars. Unfortunately, the manager and I didn’t really see eye to eye on too many things and I left to work in my own workshop. At this time, I had my workspace for over a year already and was collecting all the equipment and tools I needed, although you’re never really done collecting tools.

At the old job I wasn’t the most talkative, so I didn’t really build a reputation for myself, or not as much as I could have, so I basically have to build my customer base from nothing, with a few exceptions.

Last year I decided I want to do this job from my own shop full-time, and have been building towards that. I’m working more efficiently, my website is up and running, and I just spend a lot more time in the shop. I do still have a side job, but that’s just an occasional thing with not that many working opportunities, so I’d like to change to full-time loothing as soon as possible.

I’m based in Eindhoven, in the Netherlands. It’s a very musical city, but not a very big one. There aren’t many places where they offer repairs to instruments around, but the one that are here are institutions, and it might take a lot of time to prove myself and grow the shop in this environment.

Now back to the current situation!

Al’s suggestion of the other shop referring his customers to me would be ideal, but as you said, I don’t think he’ll go for that. I might offer him a percentage of every repair he sends my way.

I do like to work from my own shop and I definitely want to keep it that way, so as you said I’ll try to do the pickup/drop-off thing.

I have talked with the owner in the meantime and he would like to work together, but he also doesn’t really know how. He does trust me though as he knows my name from the old shop I used to work at.

Since we’re both very open for anything, I think I’ll suggest we start with a pickup/drop-off situation, I’ll charge him a percentage of what I would normally charge, and that we just see for 2 weeks or something. If it doesn’t work out, no hard feelings. He has a few less repairs in his shop and I have some extra cash. Do you have any suggestions on what the percentage should be? I was thinking 60/40 or something like that.

Hopefully in some time I can do the same as you and don’t have to worry about taking on work from other shops. Guess I just have to keep working at it!

Thanks again for your advice!

[Al Pachter Al’s Guitar Workshop]

Doug, you make very good points here. Much does depend on the situation. And particularly the personalities involved. Job says he is somewhat quiet, so likely not a big self promoter like I am, lol. And maybe not as comfortable with sales pitches or discussions about buisness deals. And obviously the personality of the other shop owner is a big factor here. I’ve found a very wide array of personalities of the local looth shops and music store repair departments. I’ve made it a habit of introducing myself to several shops here, telling them a bit about me and offering my card and the opportunity to send any customers my way if their shop finds the need for a referral, or if there is a repair they prefer not to do. Guitar Center, Music and Arts and a few other local looth shops. The responses I get are anywhere from “sure, sounds great, I have too much work anyway” to stone cold silence, lol. But I have found that it definitely doesn’t hurt to try. And it also helps that most of those shops that I have visited have heard of me at this point, although not all of them have. Either way, the determining factor is really Job’s comfort level in giving that a go with this current shop he is talking to as well as any other shops in his area. Good luck, Job!

[Ethan Muter Muter Music]

It certainly would not hurt to at least start a conversation about helping with repairs. it does not mean you have to agree to anything. He would probably appreciate the offer, but if not, you really do not have much to lose by asking. If he is someone who would become angry with you for offering help, I would imagine he is not the most friendly with customers, which could definitely help your business. I do the loothing stuff as a part-time thing, not really making much money at it, but I do have good relationships with several local shops and could probably bring in some work if I wanted to. At this point in my life, my other job not only pays the bills, it supplies me with health insurance and vacation time. Just points to consider anyway.

[Job Heesakkers Acres Instruments]

Hey Ethan, thanks for the reply! We decided to do a tryout month. I pick up guitars at his shop and charge him for the work. This is just to see if this works for the both of us. If not, no hard feelings. I’m from the Netherlands, so I don’t have to worry about health insurance luckily, but vacation time would be nice! I don’t really have ambitions other than this, so I think I just have to keep growing the business, and take repair jobs from this shop for some extra cash for now. Thanks for the insights!

[Matt Miller New Noise Guitar Repair]

I’ll offer another perspective. You could go work part time in the shop for that other luthier. Use his tools, work under his insurance, and work toward getting a loyal customer base of your own in that shop. People that go there, but you’re their “guy.” Then when you think you have enough loyal customers, leave. Odds are, many of your customers will come with you (especially if your personal shop is not too far away geographically).

I don’t like the idea of bringing another shop’s work into your own. There’s too much liability at stake. What if something happens while the guitar is in your possession? Theft, fire, flood, or you damage the guitar… Whose insurance pays for that?

Either get the other shop to refer customers to you, or go to work for them temporarily.

[Job Heesakkers Acres Instruments]

Hey Matt, thanks for the reply! I prefer not to work in his shop, because I have my own shop directly next to my house and with my own tools, workflow, etc. Also, it would feel like stealing his customers if I built up a reputation there and left with the customers.

We’re doing some try-outs, and in a few weeks we’ll see if it works out. If not, I’ll just keep working in my own shop.

Him referring customers to me would be perfect, let’s hope he wants to do that!