Basement Repair Shop

[Ian Davlin The Looth Group]

Man, this whole thing needs clearly defined boundaries. Music store owners love to pawn difficult to answer questions off onto the repair guy.

As far as maintaining a rental fleet in exchange for rent, probably not a great idea. Maintaining a rental fleet is easily half of the business of renting instruments. What is rent on a basement ? Lets say it’s a grand a month. You could burn through that pretty quick with busted instruments that would be better off replaced etc.

In general, my hackles are up on this, but I could be wrong.

[Peter Morande]

Hi Ian,

Thank you for your input. I totally agree and so does my friend who owns the retail shop.

We would need set boundaries as it comes to the intake and scope of work. I may not have worded it correctly in my initial message, but this wouldn’t be repairs on rental fleets. It would be local rails for a thriving musical community. At the moment, I have been planning and working with local assistance for new startup costs. This shop for the start will be a few days per weeks as I currently hold and maintain a Newspaper Account Executive position full-time.

They are very open to negotiating a deal that helps me get a viable shop again and to help out their clients who come in looking for a repair resource.

Our current consideration is 20% of each repair (No Rent), or 10% and $200 rent for the shop space and utilities. If I get to the point to transition to full-time again, we could renegotiate from the higher percentage and no rent to the lower + rent.

These were just fluff numbers thrown out yesterday and I am sure we can agree upon a lower rate.

I am not rushing in to anything and want to take time to get something fully fleshed out before moving forward. Please if you have any other thoughts, I am all ears.

[Bryan Parris Parris Guitars]

I wouldn’t want to give them a percentage of repairs. A lot of the reason would be the bookkeeping required for that arrangement. The other reason is I think that would work out majorly in their favor. I don’t know what kind of percentage they would want, but there’s a good chance your shop could do better than a small store taking guitars in on consignment. My rent is about 10% of my revenue so you could keep that in mind as you budget and project. When I started it was more like 30% but as we’ve grown the rent is making more sense. I would want my business to be COMPLETELY separate from the store. Figure out a plan for how you can help each other, but I would be careful…with both your finances AND your friendship with the owners.

Another thought: I think if you want to open a shop, you should open a shop with or without them. If it works out to help each other, that’s awesome. But don’t let someone else’s plan be the reason you make that move. It’s your business, your plan, so figure out how they fit with what you want to do. Sounds like a good opportunity for a space that will generate some natural traffic, but be real intentional about keeping everything separate.

[Peter Morande]

Hi Bryan,

Thank you for your input. I appreciate any and all views on this matter.

For a little more insight to the current conversations with them:

I had been an integral part of the previous guitar shop in the area for about a decade, and got done around the start of covid due to financial reasons. The previous shop owner that I am quite close with decided to retire and closed his doors in May 2023. Since then, there has been a void left in the area for sales and repairs.

The folks at the new shop (Old High School Friend, who I have been close to for over 15+ years) and his business partners are very open to negotiating a deal that helps me get a viable repair shop again and to help out their clients who come in looking for a repair resource.

Our current consideration is 20% of each repair (No Rent), or 10% and $200 rent for the shop space and utilities. If I get to the point to transition to full-time again, we could renegotiate from the higher percentage and no rent to the lower + rent.

At the moment, I have been planning since the summer and working with local assistance for new startup costs / guidance to reform an LLC. This shop for the start will be a few days per weeks as I currently hold and maintain a Newspaper Account Executive position full-time.

This would present an opportunity for natural traffic, and knowing I am back in the area doing similar work for the same community I had spent the majority of my life in will also draw back previous clients.

–

I am going to follow up with Paul M below about my more pressing concerns about this scenario as he does make a great point as well.

Thank you for your time and I would love any other insight or advice that you can think of.

[Bryan Parris Parris Guitars]

If it’s 20% only of jobs they specifically refer to you, then maybe. But i think that’s too much, personally. You may easily find yourself paying them far more than reasonable rental value on that space. I’m not in your shoes, so take it for what it’s worth.

[Peter Morande]

Hey Bryan,

I appreciate the additional insight. This has been something I have been playing around with the last few days, I think 13.5 -15% is the max I would go with on the percentage only and maybe 6 – 8% plus the lower rent.

As for a cut on all business or just business driven, that is a great point that had not come up in conversation and I believe will need to be addressed so there is no miscommunication between the retail shop and myself. The tough thing with determining if they are coming to me because of me or coming to me from the shop is I had been in that community in a sales / repair role for a decade before this shop was founded.

Ideally, I’d love to have a complete shop space of my own again, but life has thrown some hurdles my way the last few years and this opportunity seems to be the only viable way I can proceed with the craft.

[Bryan Parris Parris Guitars]

Good deal. You’ll figure it out. Starting a business with overhead is a scary risk. I would sit down with a piece of paper and sketch out your projections. Make a plan and get after it! If it’s what you want to do, you can make it happen. Maybe a realtor friend could help you figure out what fair rental value would be. Maybe you could negotiate a 1 year plan with the option to change it up after you get things rolling.

[Paul M]

on a side note: didn’t Montpelier flood horribly last year? I don’t want to be the voice of doom, but whatever bad thing happened last year weather wise is probably going to happen again, but worse.

Personally unless I’m high up on a hill, I don’t want anything of value in a basement anymore. I would be really careful having expensive things that belong to other people in a basement, I would definitely make sure you’re well covered insurance wise.

[Peter Morande]

Hi Paul,

I appreciate you for addressing this and your insight on this matter.

This may be one of my biggest concerns and ultimately the deal breaker for this whole opportunity. Yes, Montpelier did suffer a considerable flood (worst one since 1992).

This is something that I made clear with them regarding liability and protocols in place given a repeat. They do get flood warnings and have a specific plan in place for their retail shop and any contents in their basement. I have been assured that proper steps would be taken to protect and relocate all instruments at the slightest potential warning. Same protocol with my tools.

Again, this is my biggest concern at the moment regarding the space, as I am not as trusting as I once was. I would need to ensure I could develop a proper procedure on my own to know I was doing everything possible to ensure the safety of my clients instruments in my care.

I am curious to hear more on what you and others think of this matter, as I don’t want to let my need and want to get back to the instrument world cloud my view of potential disasters.

[Paul M]

for me, high flood risk would be an absolute no go. I know real estate up there is super crazy hard to find but I just think of how many $100 things I have in my little shop…a flood would take out everything, it would be over. Having a shop means a ton of expensive hard to replace shit. Plus wood. Plus liability.

It’s not just grabbing a bunch of instruments but like my Delta bandsaw that totally works, my CNC, etc etc.

My business here is more or less a hobby, but if I had to make my living from it right now I think that would be even moreso an issue.

Just my $.02

But finding a space is super hard, I get it.

Maybe on the top floor somewhere of one of those downtown buildings? or up the hill?

[Peter Morande]

I totally understand this and am torn.

As we mentioned previously in this forum, the flooding and liability are a huge concern.

The challenge as you clearly stated is finding a space, let alone an affordable space is super hard. I had sought out some spaces in my current city not too far from Montpelier, but each time was shooed away due to the fact that sometimes repairs can generate noise.

I absolutely appreciate your $0.02, and this is exactly what I need. The community of folks in the same craft to help weigh out pros and cons, to give insight and even share similar experiences.

Thank you.

[Paul M]

Unfortunately I think Danny West, who is a regular here, had a flood yesterday that damaged his shop. Food for thought about basement shops.

[Peter Morande]

Attached are some photos for reference, I have the sizing information at home and can update this later. Look for the blue tape markers for rough outline of the available shop space.

[Peter Morande]

Continued.

[Paul M]

I’m a gloom and doom kinda guy but personally I think whatever fucked up weather thing you had in the last 2 years, anticipate it happening at least 2x in the next 15 years, I think that’s the optimistic scenario.

[Peter Morande]

Honestly, that’s a good way to view it. I can’t speak for the folks running the city, but from previous experiences and spending the majority of my life in the area; I don’t know if Montpelier can find a viable solution to prevent or diminish another natural disaster like this again.

[Brian Boedigheimer BBmade]

Everyone replying has some great feedback. I too would be very wary of getting into a shop without crystal clear expectations and, make sure the agreement is in writing including options to change the agreement.

If you give them a percentage, that should only be on business they send to you. When they ask you to repair store inventory, are they going to pay your price minus their percentage? Anything left up for discussion when you get into the actual space can quickly become sources of frustration and confusion.

I would opt for rent with no percentage personally, otherwise 10% and $200 a month, but the percentage would only be on work they send my way.

The people that come directly to you could also benefit the store buying things that you don’t want to stock.

That brings up parts and materials you stock versus what they stock. If they don’t have it, will they order it so they make the profit? Are you sitting down to figure out the specific item they need to order and making nothing?

Doing favors, making deals with friends can turn sour quick. It is easy to get excited by the possibilities and figure things will just work, but they often don’t.

I’d rather pay the rent, charge what I charge, and keep the books clean and simple.

My experience with music stores has not been great. There have been some really sketchy characters I’ve done work for, and a couple good ones. I would NEVER give a music store a cut of anything at this point, and I would not discount my work for their inventory either.

Time is the one commodity we never get back, and we are paid for not only our time, but also our knowledge and experience. Imagine giving away 20% of your time, it might change the perspective.

1,440 minutes in a day. What percentage of those minutes are you willing to let someone take from you?

[Peter Morande]

I agree, everyone replying has been great. Crystal clear expectations and a written agreement will absolutely be key if we choose to move forward.

You bring up great points, repairing store inventory was not discussed and certainly should be negotiated before potentially committing to anything.

Ideally, a rent only option would be the best way to go, but at this time and for the immediate future being able to get the space for a different method of paying dues seems to be my only option.

Based off their rent for the whole shop, the area that I would be “renting” would be close to a quarter (ever so slightly less). While doing repairs part-time as I hold a full-time job, the most beneficial and cost effective route would be for me to go straight percentage for renting the space. If I were to make the jump to full-time repairs, the lower percentage and small sum for rent would be a better option.

Before deciding one way or another, I will nail down more details addressed by you and others regarding crystal clear communication and expectations. Incoming business (referral or own driven traffic), shop inventory repairs/maintenance, inventory of parts and goods used for the service of the instruments.

All this information is something to sleep on for sure and helps with the deciding process.

Thank you. If there is anything else you or anyone would like to acknowledge or have concerns about, I am all ears.

[Jonathan Stewart JM Stewart Guitars]

Im no expert here, as ive only been in business in my current, rent “free” location(at home shop) a few years, but I can tell you my experience of working in retail music shops for the last 10 years.

Repairs VASTLY outpaced retail sales every quarter. Pay the flat rate rent, no percentages, you will make more this way, and tell you partner your happy to do work as credit towards your monthly rent, but no percentages.

[Peter Morande]

Hi Jonathan,

I appreciate your take on this. I do remember from my time in the old shop I worked for that repairs were the bread and butter. Maybe, I should just go the straight rent route.

So many things to consider.

[Peter Morande]

Just wanted to take a quick moment to thank you all for your advice and guidance.

After speaking with you folks and consulting my friend/mentor who owned the shop I previously worked at, I have come to the decision that the basement shop underneath the retail store would not be the best fit for me and my business.

Too many risks involved with the potential flooding in the area and I don’t want to be directly or indirectly response for any musical instruments getting ruined by the chance of floods taking place.