Tony Lewis Skypilot Guitar Repair
Forum Replies Created
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Sorry for the public thought process…….handling this as a jewelry project I’m sure would work. Instead of screw, you could drill small hole for a brass rod/post. Solder post with higher melting point silver solder into holder. Install in chamfered plate hole a bit longer (experience dictates this but you can look up basics of creating a rivet) then thickness of plate and peen it into chamfer creating a jewelers rivet. Then solder rod/rivet to plate using lower temp solder (cover tuning peg with wet rag). Jewelers silver solder comes in varying temps so you don’t unsolder previous work. Also, jeweler’s flux dries like water color so you can pin point where solder flows. And you then paint a heat sink paste around the flux areas and plate. How I know this would work is based on a college jewelry class assignment shown in the pics. The thickness of the brass is close to the holder thickness and the rivets oddly are about the size you’d use. This was a riveting exercise and boastingly supplied me with an “A”. This is not hard to do. If there’s a college or jewelers school nearby, you may be able to talk a student into it. I would have loved to have taken it on. To keep going!: I’d remake the holders with the rivet bit in one piece, rivet to plate and silver solder. I’d cut the end of the tuner gear off to access holders if screw is not used to hold assembly together (can’t tell if there’s a screw end) then solder end back on. But I went through the different scenarios thinking that one of the methods might be something one can pull off easier then another……..
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Fussy’s my middle name……also, you can use jewelry soldering techniques on that for sure. You can wet rag the tuner so it won’t heat up. Use pin point soldering tip with gas/oxy set up and low melting point silver solder. Tuner plate would act as a heat sink (have done jewelry work for years). I would combine these two ideas cause joint still a weak point without mechanical fastening. Further, you can use flat head brass watchmaker’s screw and chamfer tuner plate to get screw head flush to plate so you don’t have to alter wood on head stock. Great that it’s brass cause easy to work and solders well at much lower temps then steel. Pretty sure this would work and you’d retain the original tuner.
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Some pics of taps and screws. I’m fairly hopeful, after looking at other tuning holders that you have enough material to use watchmaker’s screws. I’m going to consult with my friend Mark Blanchard, a builder of beautiful guitars and also a fine machinist and……watch repairer.
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I found these pics of a ’54. I think you need to join the holder to the plate mechanically. I doubt epoxy would hold a metal joint that small, especially with the force of the tuner screw pressure. What I’m thinking is you may be able to file the nubs off so the face of the holders are flat. I think there’s enough thickness there to carefully tap a small brass machine watchmaker’s screw into the flat face. You could then screw the holder to the tuner plate using the existing holes and solder (low, localized heat using the same flux core solder one would use for soldering electrical wire which would definitely work with brass, with a 60 watt soldering pen) the screw threads and all to the plate. It just depends on how thick that holder is. And for the nut. I thought of something. Is binding material dense enough to make a nut out of? You could laminate white and brown binding together?
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Forgot to add that you can add just a touch of water with dropper to holes. This will displace air in cavities and help soften glue, but not enough to pose risk to finish by seepage. More holes and heat better than tearing out heel causing more damage. Good luck!
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And possibly add more heat probes. You can add at least two more to the situation. Personally, I’d put six in since you can see exact placement. One each, at the four corners and two in the middle of the flat section (Marked barley in yellow on your pic, hope you don’t mind). Use two soldering pencils. You can use much thicker gauge wire then on the foam cutters which use 18 ga. I’d use 12ga. Works great. Martin neck joints (you probably know this and I’m being pedantic) are usually among the easier joints to pull. You can check out how I make them if your interested: https://dev.loothgroup.com/post-type-videos/neck-removal-with-soldering-pencil-version-3/
dev.loothgroup.com
Neck Removal with Soldering Pencil Version 3 – The Looth Group
Neck Removal with Soldering Pencil Version 3 – The Looth Group
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At the hardware store…….Looks to be flattened electrical conduit…..what, 3/4″? Many uses! Oops….somebody beat me to it. I would love a Total Vise/ Proper work ago-go but can’t afford it yet. Conduit cheap and easy to work.
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Ha! Builders around here have been great resources for work. The shop’s new. Mark Blanchard, a builder of beautiful guitars, lives up the way, feels the same. Would repair for friends but just wants to build. And Ray the banjo builder’s the same. I guess I’m doing good enough work that they refer me…..
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Re-read your opener. I think the wood threaded jack was a dumb design. As you point out, trying to work around the design hard for you and future repair. I’d get rid of it and make it easy. You don’t need a face plate and can mimic outside look.
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“any ideas outside of enlarging the hole and installing a jack with a faceplate?” Whats wrong with that? The original looks like a bad design. Why not make it simple for you and the future repair?
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Thanks man!
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Ya…ugly bridge way cheaper then neck agogo which would entail dealing with bridge anyway cause of intonation. Customer may be able to get new one because that’s the obvious problem, but as mentioned, could get one back with same problem? What would a Grand Master like you do?
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And one more……
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Another pic…..
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Hi Dan, I may have inquired but can’t remember: Do you think it may be a good idea to have blank options (no mounting holes) of Golden Age Tuner’s? That way the repair person could drill holes to suit the differing patterns of different guitars? In my brief, rookie repair career, almost all older acoustics have had peppered headstocks from tuner change outs.
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Can only load three pics so here are pics of tuning peg sets for comparison. Looks like you can interchange pegs…..
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Thoughts: From the wear marks and the ruler in your photo, it looks like 1″ long posts will engage in the headstock. The Stewmac tuners should work OK. The pull of the string on the post shouldn’t pull any more on that post then on a long post on an un-slotted long peg head so depth of post into headstock for support shouldn’t be a concern. But if you measure the width and are concerned there may be another route to take. I don’t know this but perhaps the golden age tuner pegs are interchangeable between them? There are short and long peg choices for the three peg “prewar” model. It gives the lengths of the long or short pegs. I’m wondering if the longer pegs (they are .60 longer than the 12 string pegs) from the prewar model can interchange with the 12 string model. They look similar. They are the same diameter. Yes, the longer peg is about a 16th shorter but hopefully will still engage in the peg head (you can measure length of true engagement on guitar). From the wear marks and from the ruler in your photo, it looks like the length should work. If the length works, you could call Stewmac and I’m sure they’d see if they interchange.
Note that the string hole is higher on the longer peg then on the 12 string peg and higher then the Martin peg. You can fill the hole and re-drill the hole to center. Also, if there haven’t been extra holes drilled in the headstock and the new tuner mounting holes don’t align with the stock hole pattern on the headstock, you can fill the holes on the tuners and re-drill them to fit instead of peppering the headstock with more holes. You can use the same method to fill the peg holes. You can find an article on easily filling the holes by typing “Golden Age Tuner Hole Relocation” in the “archives” search engine.
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Hi Dave. It’s working great so far. I made a vid and I think it’s in the video archive. Neck Removal with Soldering Pencil Version 3 shows how I put it together and the components (obviously simple). What you don’t see is the rheostat. All together it costs about 60. for everything to get started.
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Hi Gerry! Thanks so much for the reply. I got the wiring diagram from fender. Yes, much switching involved. Initially, one person told me they didn’t carry the switch and indeed referred me to another supplier but then a call back asking for the diagram to another person told me that they still carried it. It would indeed be a hassle to switch switches and configure in the space given. So, In the end, I ordered four of the things. They’re made in China and I’m worried about current tariff nonsense. In working maintenance at the local hospital, much of the machinery have circuit boards and relays would go bad all the time. During Covid, it was nay impossible to get electrical parts, switches in particular. I view it as unfortunate that guitar manufacturers have gone to much more complex circuitry using boards and enclosed switches which are hard to access and maintain, especially since we don’t source that stuff. Your book is excellent by the by. The wiring diagrams are such a great way to start to follow and break down the basics towards understanding the more complex. Thanks for this great resource!
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I just did something like this…..I glued a thin block on the inside to add support because the hole area body thickness was thin like yours and seemed like this problem would happen again due to poor design. Then, as Ian suggested, I filled the other side with epoxy flush with body hole and glued to the new interior block, creating a solid, thicker assembly to drill, as Ian suggests, a longer output jack.
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Hi Sean,
Agree 100%………However (does there always have to be a however?), I think it needs to start even before the customer receives, purchases etc. their instruments. And information needs to be tailored to specific areas (like the “known to cause cancer” warnings required in Cali). With the advent of the majority of instruments being purchased online, there is little to no information passing from the seller to the buyer on humidity and humidifying (and more then likely, not even if they buy in a store from a salesperson). The customer sees the sales pitch, possibly goes to the spec sheet, reads up on what is offered, and nowhere is there a conversation on humidity. We repair people are on the other end and that is the first the customer ever hears about humidity. And I think this is because, in all fairness (or not?) to the seller, the majority of locations they are shipping to have humidity levels that are close to what wood can tolerate without too much movement. So it usually comes down to the customer not being educated until it’s too late or they are vets who have lived and learned in their particular climes about humidity and how to handle. My talk to customers is evolving as my business is new and I learn myself about what works in this area and how to deal with problems with customers. When a heartbroken customers comes in either angry or sad about why their brand new instrument looks like a pretzel, I empathize completely as no-one was around to give me the talk when I first moved to the area and opened the case on my acoustic (coming from an average of 65% humidity, so I never thought about it) after a couple of months, only to find cracks all over the place. And I took it to a local repair person and still never got a talk on humidity even though I researched and got caught up on my own. So my talk is now this: Your new bass started out in San Louis Obispo where the average humidity is 64%! (just looked it up) and then it was shipped to Sweetwater (or Reverb or whoever) in Indiana where the average humidity is 58% . Then you purchased your brand new bass, they did their 55 point check, set up the bass, then you requested the extra peck set up, and they shipped it to you here where the average humidity is 48% but can have months where it’s 28% and within months (or days if timing is right, or the day it comes in the back of the UPS truck where it’s 120 degrees), your new bass looks like a pretzel. Set up gone, and fret sprout or worse. I show them the above picture. Sure, If the customer comes back after the talk (or, as you suggest, a monthly email with pic of mile wide cracks), and they didn’t listen, you could give a lecture or worse, but a large percentage of stuff coming in is fairly new, and the rest never were educated because there is no education at the front end. And even though humidity is a large part of my business, I empathize and feel bad for them and do my best to educate. When a person asks about buying a new guitar, the first thing out of my mouth is about humidity and to be ready with the sponge or don’t get a set up until it’s here and set it up after a month. Humidity is the big one where I live. Addendum: And unfortunately, we humans ( I think innately) tend to be reactive, not proactive.
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Ya, those humidity levels are insane! If the customer has had the guitar un-humidified locally for years, I fix in place. I have noticed that, do to extreme levels, everything can change, as in the case of action, at least a 64th to a 32nd, after something leaves the shop. In my case, I use measurements as a guide. For instance, if I do a set up in my shop (no humidity modification since hardly any of my customers humidify), I add a 64th to my height, because most take home to an A/C (or worse, a swamp cooler) controlled environment in the summer, which throws off everything, including what they humidify their guitars at, if they do. The lows are so extreme that I think the minute they take their instrument out of a humidified situation, the instrument changes instantly. Case in point: A women brought a beautiful ’33 Gibson in for crack repairs. She lived in the Bay Area where the humidity rarely goes below say 65%. I think she said “the night” she arrived, she was in bed and heard sharp cracking noises. Went out to find her baby had two full length cracks on the top. So I think the so called “seasoned” instrument and using all sorts of humidity tricks and such don’t work very well here. There are differences in our climes. It gets to 110 degrees here in the summer, and when a performing guitarist gets on stage, takes the humidifier off and has the guitar slung around his or her shoulder for any length of time, all bets are off. Scary!
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Hi Pierre! I too live in an extreme humidity situation (see the pic) but in the opposite climate. I’m in the high desert. I think most repair people live in areas that don’t have extreme humidity fluctuation. How I handle cracks (and like you, there are many!) is: 1. Most customers don’t humidify their instruments. I DON’T re-humidify. As you mention, they will simply re-open during low humidity so I repair cracks at there most open time. I have repaired all-ready-repaired cracks brought from other higher humidity areas that simply open further when faced with extreme low humidity. So I fix the cracks for the lowest humidity to this area. 2. I also, like you, perform many set ups. Customers are often upset when they pay for a new guitar bought online, say from a Sweetwater or the like, have them set up from the seller, only to find that their new guitar is almost unplayable on arrival. I tell customers that are thinking of buying a new instrument to wait and have them set up locally to fit this areas climate. Conversely, I tell customers that if they bring their instruments to areas that have consistently higher humidity, that their instruments will change, could swell considerably, and force cracking and /or set up changes. If a crack is splinted in as wide as possible configuration and is brought to a much higher humidity, I found that this may cause the splinted area to swell much higher than if un-splinted because we have slightly enlarged the surface area of the crack by widening that area with the splint. Tricky! So this is what I’m finding in my early days of crack repair in extreme fluctuation. I now (except for very wide cracks, 1/8″ or wider) glue and cleat (full length TJ Thompson cleats) every crack no matter how long and drop fill with something flexible. I’m experimenting. This is tough to do if you are wanting to stay with a traditional glue on a vintage instrument as most like hot hide etc. are not very flexible. And finishing over this, as you mention, is a concern. I don’t know if this is helpful as you’ve been at this much longer than I, but I think we all have to learn techniques to fit unique situations. Please keep in touch with what you discover!
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Hopefully I’m not overreaching and assuming. If I am, I apologize.
It’s a good “ballpark” idea. Dan’s relocating an adjustable bridge so he’s using a method to get him close quickly because he knows he has “adjustability”. This method is specific to this situation. Locating a fixed, single saddle has more pieces to it. For instance, the angle of the saddle in relation to the centerline is not discussed because Dan is going off already determined points, so no discussion necessary.
There are many methods from more nuanced mathematics to ballpark ideas and gadgets to locate and compensate bridge/saddles. In your instance, you already have ballpark locations from previous install and Dan’s method is perfectly tailored to what you are doing, provided you use an adjustable bridge/saddle set up. If you are going to use a fixed bridge/saddle set up, your going to need to get closer in your locating and other methods may be necessary. It’s great that you are diving in to learn about the why’s and how’s of locating proper saddle location, and to the theories on why/how compensation works. In your case, buying a pre-intonated bridge can be problematic as the intonation of a pre-set saddle will not be precise to your instrument. If you haven’t already, I humbly recommend getting a beater acoustic and taking off the bridge and relocating it. Make a saddle and compensate it. The journey will lead you to finding resources and answers and what works best for you.
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My two cents: Do exactly as Dan did and use an adjustable bridge so you have adjustability instead of a set saddle situation. I think the original saddle was adjustable yes?
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HAHA! Yes, gluing fingertips! When I started out a few months ago, I ground off my thumb pad. Took for ever to heal. I learned a neat trick. I take gaffers tape and wad it up and stick it to small things like nuts etc. Control from a distance and quick and easy.
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Also, if I don’t tunnel vision on the question, and watch this video, this is a great tutorial on how useful a simple sander can be to guitar people. I mean the guy is shaping the neck on it. There are other videos of him shaping a bridge completely free form on the thing. He uses the sander for shaping his braces. It’s his go to…….
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQIGFcCMVKo Stop action shows it to be single bolt on……..
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You can fix it if you want as a learning process if you haven’t done the fix. Good training for when something serious comes in. The picture of the neck heat was learning for me. We were able to get a replacement neck for the instrument but I wanted to see and experiment for myself. I had access to the truss rod if it needed replacing. Everything worked, but I needed to go through the process.
