Ian Davlin The Looth Group
Forum Replies Created
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Also, do you have a pic of a neck your dealing with Nigel ?
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I’m going to go outside the lines on this one a little.
I press frets in in the drill press and I use a fairly standard neck rest. One thing I do that is different is I tap on the arbor . This winds up requiring much less force from the actual pressing action and as a result much less need for fancy support, although it still comes up. For instance on this fingerboard extension, I had a jack and a caul between the back and the top.
On the subject of gluing down fret ends. Fret ends are usually up because the radius of the fretwire is flatter than the board, or the board rolls off on the edge. Either way, in my experience, no adhesive is up to the task of keeping something metal, glued to something wood under that kind of tension.
If there are just a couple of sprung fret ends, I pull the frets, reshape them to the board and reinstall them. Sometimes using glue, but with no tension on the fret. If there are a ton of sprung ends, I just refret or decline. It winds up being as much work as a refret and never as good in my opinion.
One more thing, some drill presses have a quill lock, that can be useful for glueing in a recalcitrant fret in a tight spot. Also a radiused sanding block can be used to bridge over a weird heel that you cant get a clamp onto. Perhaps the time has come to look at a 3d scanner for making crazy cauls ?
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353 likes, 26 comments - ianhatesguitars on September 6, 2024: "Some tap, some press. I prap. Or tress. Or Frapp. Say, that's put me in the mind of a frappucino. #loothing #frappuccino".
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I’m not sure if there is a good rule of thumb for when it’s ok to slip a little glue under a slightly lifting bridge.
Couple things to note (I would only do this on a really cheap guitar) if it was glued with something like titebond, the only way to reglue a titebond joint, without cleaning the old glue out, is with epoxy. Then your joint is still a just bridge between two failed layers of titebond.
If the bridge was originally glued with hide glue, you can sometimes slip some in, but usually any bridge glued with hide glue, that is letting go, is letting go for reasons beyond a glue failure. Loose X brace, top has taken a belly and the bridge has not, glue has gotten old and crusty, etc.
If you are interested in just an opinion on this one. I’d pull it for sure, or maybe decline if that wasn’t an option financially. That finish lip is really sever and needs to be removed for most reliable results. Taking finish off, like that, for a bridge reglue is really time consuming and fraught with cosmetic peril. Figure at least 2-3 hours for the whole job. It also looks like the bridge is a little warped.
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What is the bridge made out of ? It’s really poppin’.
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Probably 192. If you cant track it down, I highly recommend grabbing some with a known strength if you’re doing something important like a bridge or neck joint. 192 is my go-to. You can find it in a couple places.
https://www.northern-nikawa.com/
https://bjornhideglue.com/
northern-nikawa.com
HOME | Northern Nikawa ~ Fine Restoration Materials
Specializing in Japanese Nikawa, luthier supplies, fine tools and restoration materials. Northern Nikawa is the only source for Amanosan Amano-Cola™ in North America
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Wow dude ! That looks fantastic !
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Dalton,
I totally missed this. I am really sorry. Usually, when I do a Gretsch rebind, I use Loctite gel CA. I do small sections, one lamination at a time and I am careful with the glue. If you are careful, the squeeze out squeezes straight up, barely intersecting with the finish. You can then wipe it away across the binding. You can also wipe paste wax on the finish, in that area, to protect the finish. I’ve been meaning to try a liquid frisket as well. With anything like that, if your finish is checked, you need to beware of your barrier penetrating the checking.
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Is this a loothprint ?
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Do you have any pics of your set up and the broken side ?
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@harpeth-guitar just did a gretsch rebind. He might have insight on this project as well. I’ll reach out and see what he says.
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Im not familiar with that supplier, but I would reach out to them and see what they think about this. It’s hard to believe it’s a chemistry thing with the lacquer.
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This sounds like a solid plan, but I have a couple questions. How are you planning on dimensioning the binding ? Which adhesive are you going to use ? Are you sure the finish can handle tape ?
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If that nut comes out I’d pull it and replace it. I’ve had luck with a flat blade screw driver before. If that didn’t work, you could go with a reverse drill bit, reverse tap and then a reverse bolt. Chances are good that it would come out with just the drill bit. You might also just try popping an easy out in there.
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Man, this is a tough one. I would really look at wrapping the majority of the neck in several layers of carbon fiber.
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You might try tru oil for this. You can actually thin tru oil with naptha/mineral spirits, so you could get it to penetrate. After a cursory glance at the internet, I cant find any mention of a similar issue with tannins.
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Not this particular model, but I have had a crack at some older pearwood boards before. Here is a list of things to look out for.
- Fingerboard is brittle. Extra care for removal of frets.
- Fingerboard is soft. When putting frets back in, take care not to apply enough force to dent the frets into the board or there will be extra fret leveling
- Black leather dye is your friend if you need to re-black the board after planing.
- You wont find replica fretwire and the guitar is cheap, use whatever fret wire makes you comfortable.
- Might be good to hit the board with mineral oil after you pull the frets and let it sit for a couple days to soak it up. This may prevent chip out when installing the frets.
- Measure your expectations when working with suboptimal materials. Take it slow and do the best you can.
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I also thought I might add my very first youtube video.
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I would put this idea in the speculative category. I’ve never done this in the field, but it makes sense based on my experience at breedlove.
Breedlove Guitars, when I was working there, had modelers plywood that was laminated to the top at the neck joint, out to the first brace and about 1/2″ outside of the fingerboard extension. This plywood was actually let into the sides and neck block, with an angled router base that had the plate projecting to the bridge (and subsequently the fingerboard extension). In the 4 years that I worked there, I never saw a guitar come back for a neck reset.
Not sure if it would be as effective just glued in and not let in to the sides etc, but it would certainly resist more force than spruce. It doesn’t look horrible either.
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Are you talking about for the underside, like a cleat etc ?
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I’d like to add this supplier to the useful links posts. Do you mind if I give you authorship since you recommended ?
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If you’re getting it from axiom inc, you can laminate it together to get to the right dimension if you’re short and then trim down with the binding sizer. The stewmac binding lamination jig works pretty well. Just let it dry overnight for best results.
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Try soaking the wood for a bit rather than a spritz. Also, that break is really short for mahogany. I would expect the grain to be longer and more frayed than broke. You may have to really baby that stuff. Like make that turn in increments and let it sit under heat at each stage before moving on. Where did the wood come from ?
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I would say test your fish glue first. If you’re using celluloid, my tests indicated that hide glue is guaranteed immediate failure.
I use gel ca and do small sections and hold with fingers. I also prebend. Things that are important are to scuff the binding and to put a small bevel on the bottom of the binding to make the edge adjacent to the sides look as tight as possible.
I usually replace color on the binding with an airbrush. How do you plan to use shellac and what color replacements ?
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Burn it in a pile of used underpants that were discarded for loose elastic.
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If there previous comments about double action rod are correct, 0% chance. Also, if it is a double action rod, you may be at the end of the adjustment going towards relief. The only move from there is broken.
Is this a customer guitar ?
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Interesting. Did you try heat ?
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I cant tell if the easy out got it turning.
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Some people have painted over faux wood. It would certainly be acceptable on this instrument to give that a whirl. We did an episode with joe glaser on the subject. Nikki Walters did a fine article on the subject as well.
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This forum is for 100% for questions. And is the right spot even.
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I don’t think you’re going to find West to be any more resistant to heat creep. Last time I looked, heat resistant epoxies were really pricey and fairly exotic.
