Ian Davlin The Looth Group
Forum Replies Created
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Neck block could be flexing. Threaded insert could be pulling out.
How much have you coved out from the heel ? Do you have any pics of the neck and neck block not assembled etc ?
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I’ve never used ebony shavings. That’s getting pretty wide, though and it’s on a nice guitar, so I might try if going for best results.
The main problem is the frets. Are you planning on a refret ? If not it could be fussy getting the spline up to the fret in a meaningful way.
On fingerboard repairs, I really like epoxy putty. I get the JB Weld wood fill from Home Depot and and mixol black pigment. No matter how much you polish it, it never produces a high sheen like CA tends to do. That sheen difference is usually the give away for the fill on a bare wood board.
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My advice for avoiding dings and chips is to set up your workspace carefully and build habits that minimize risk.
I never hang tools on the back wall of the bench where I would have to reach across an instrument to retrieve them. That is an accident waiting to happen. I avoid putting tape on guitars unless it is absolutely necessary. I move tools around guitars, not over them. If I need to cut brittle lacquer (like on a maple refret), I heat the knife first. Sometimes I will soften problematic lacquer with a light coat of retarder before working on it, such as when removing an acoustic Gibson neck.
When I do cause a ding, which has become rare since my time at a guitar factory where any damage was considered a serious mistake and I had to develop those aforementioned strategies, I fix it. How I address it with the customer depends on the outcome of the repair and whether the situation involved an actual error. On vintage instruments, many small marks can be blended away with nothing more than spit and a little dirt.
If I were running a full-time repair shop again, I would definitely have a clear policy on finish issues that occur despite professional efforts and in the absence of hasty actions and/or dumb mistakes.
The reality is that finish issues happen. For whatever reason, luthiers tend to hold themselves to an impossibly high standard. Think about how a doctor responds when a patient dies: “I am sorry for your loss, here is your bill.”
In the same way, it makes sense to develop a reasonable policy you can live with. I would also start taking extra time during intake process to anticipate potential problems such as brittle lacquer. It’s really easy to blast through intake and not think about everything that can go wrong.
Take the time to develop strong finish repair skills. Without those skills, or someone you can rely on for them, this work would be nearly impossible. At least for me. When people compliment my finish repair, I usually respond, “I’m good at finish repair cuz I suck at everything else.”
Now, all that being said, if you made a real honest to goodness boo boo and there’s no painting your way out of it etc CALL THE CUSTOMER.
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The body actually looks like it could respond well to slow solvents and a few coats of clear etc.
The neck is something else. Not sure why orange and the back and sides remain roughly their original color.
Not sure about Gibson 90s finish schedule, but on vintage back sides and neck, the color was usually provided by using a dark oil/dye based pore filler.
They were going for a vintage look here and it is not uncommon for manufacturers to miss interpret how to get the mahogany that dark. One thing people will errantly do is use a pigment based pore filler to bare wood so more color is applied. This has a distinct feature of completely nuking chatoyance and showing off cross grain scratches in the wood.
One other think they might have done is to give it a dye based toner coat. You can detect this by taking a sample.
One thing that gives me pause is the way the clear coat is flaking off of the back. It looks like there was a layer that missed scuff sanding. That can be tricky.
All in all, you are entering uncharted territory and could end up doing a lot of work on a project that has super funky chemistry. It would be good to hand the customer a big fat envelope stuffed with caveats.
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Something kinda like this. RIP Joel !
https://www.instagram.com/p/CWAt6SgrmZZ/?hl=en&img_index=1
instagram.com
1,486 likes, 118 comments - jw.restoration on November 8, 2021: "1959 Gibson Les Paul Special - Neck and finish repair pt. 4/4 So I guess this is where things get a bit controversial. When and where is it ok or … Continue reading
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I like the idea of using glue only first. It doesn’t take much time and it wouldn’t interfere with a more aggressive fix it fails.
How are you thinking about orienting the splines ? The one’s that I’ve seen that make sense run the entire width of the pickup cavity and slide up under the fingerboard a fair amount. Last one I saw I think was made out of ebony.
Maybe @patreon_5604352 James Roadman did it ? Possibly with a slitting saw on a milling machine.
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Most of the expensive guitar builders tend to favor roughly half of the string width outside of the slot. As a result, I’ve personally been conditioned to view excessive string depth as looking pretty rough. It also can be a binding hazard with some tuner configurations.
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A fingerboard wedge is a fairly common repair technique for unserviceable neck joints. Classical guitars, with Spanish heels are frequent candidates for instance.
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I’m not picking up blotches in the pics. I see the natural stripes of grain pattern, but I’ll assume that there are blotches, which is a common problem.
It could be that in the stripping process, not all of the original finish was removed. This can lead to blotching because the UV of the top wood hasn’t been normalized and because the old finish may have become slightly darker with time etc. The only way to alleviate this is to re-sand. It looks like the wood might be cedar, in which case, that original finish can be really really deep. You may just take the blotches for structural considerations.
One thing also, I hand rub the shellac sealer coat. Spraying anything onto open wood like spruce or cedar can lead to blotching.
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I’m not sure I see a way around it but for dye. One thing you might try is to use an oil based pore filler and use dye as the colorant rather than pigment. You could double the dye on a different batch of pore filler that you use on the light side. If your oil based pore filler is cut with a solvent that will bite into shellac, then a shellac seal coat could be the ticket to a risk free do over if it doesn’t quite jive.
TEST TEST TEST !
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6-32. 1/8” long
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I suspect that the neck isn’t glued in, but you never know. I know that a lot of custom builders really pride themselves on those tight fitting neck joints. It could just be really really tight.
One other thing that could be going on is that there was a little bit of swelling over the screws locking them into place. You could try making some screw extractor tubes to relieve them. Ive attached a link to a variant from wood craft, but they are easy to make with files etc.
You are probably going to need them anyway for what remains in the neck.
https://www.woodcraft.com/products/woodriver-screw-extractor-1-4
woodcraft.com
WoodRiver Screw Extractor 1/4 for Removing Stripped Screws | Woodcraft
Easily remove stripped or damaged screws with the WoodRiver 1/4 inch Screw Extractor. Durable and reliable for any woodworking or DIY project. Buy online or in your Woodcraft store!
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You can definitely do that. One thing I might add is that you can measure first to make sure the frets have enough meat to effect positive change. Adjust the neck straight, put a straight edge on the board that covers at least back the the 7th fret and then forward over the hump. There should be a gap forming between the straight edge and the frets, before the hump. Measure the gap with feeler gauges. This will give you an indication of how much you will need to remove from the hump.
Below is my fret leveling rig. Home Depot sells a construction level with machined aluminum surface which is actually quite reasonable.
I like to only put abrasives on the area of the beam making contact with the hump. Then I add tape to make sure the rest of the beam is coplanar with the abrasive. This prevents me from sanding a dip into the start of the hump.
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Great move !
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I alway start with the primaries – red, yellow, blue – black and white and then a very neutral brown. The idea that with those colors you can mix into anything. Turns out, pigment mixing doesn’t work 100% like color theory, so I would add a few different browns if you can afford it. Mixol does offer some different kits that look pretty good too.
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Dude. That looks pretty cool? Have you thought about making an arch with an ACME screw to just throw center pressure on it? Like a book binding press etc?
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Perfect!
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I’ll start swinging by late. Fair warning. My A game leaves the station at about 4pm these days cuz I’m old.
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What time do you usually pop on ? It’s late for me I think. Usually 7-8 pm EST ?
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Really cool Rick !
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outstanding !
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Is edge the ms browser?
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We might hop on the loothalong to take a look at this. I might record the convo a stash it here if that’s cool with you ?
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I’m not sure what that would get you other than access to more gluing surface, which aint nothing, but unless you have some whack-a-doo grain orientation, isn’t why that broke in the first place.
Also, slotting into the pickup pocket, under the fingerboard, makes your finish repair situation a ton easier. Unless you have a ton of experience with mahogany finish repair, those splines could easily turn into a shame spiral. But, if you don’t care how it looks or are confident that you can get to a good place aesthetically, I say have at it.
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Did it rebreak on the glue line, or adjacent to the glue line ?
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I can’t tell if I really bummed you out bad enough to sell all your tools for real or if you’re messing with me.
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Did you have to adjust the bracing for a new bridge position ?
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I forgot to mention. That was a James Roadman answer !
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Nah, just more.
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This is that guy. I started following him cuz he had a series on wrangling Blender into some CAD functionality.
https://www.youtube.com/@Keep-Makingyoutube.com
Exploring, Learning, and Choas! Hey, I'm Jonathan. Welcome to Keep Making, this channel is where I mess around, test stuff out, learn stuff, and then share it all with you. Whether it's 3D printing, 3D design, a bit of painting, … Continue reading
